Poll: League Changes

[seadawg]

Ok, this will not necessarily be the ultimate decision, but just to get an idea about what people want, I'm going to post this poll. Again, the results are far from official. As I said before, ultimately Adam has the final say on what we do (if anything) with this league.

Option 1: Change nothing. Encourage everyone to be more active. Replace inactive members.

Option 2: Implement some sort of salary cap league. Note that doing so will require a new commish and the replacement of at least two members (Adam and Seadawg).

Option 3: Everyone protects 12 assets and we have a re-draft. Prospects and Roster players are weighted equally.

Option 4: Everyone protects 12 assets and we have a re-draft. Prospects are worth. .5 of an asset.

[roenick27]

Stupid question but can we vote for multiple options?


Also since I'm on a PC now I saw the whole comment on option 2. I don't feel that is right. We feel some changes need to be made and were asking for an open discussion, we didn't say we were leaving if we didn't get our way. To basically threaten people if they vote for a choice defeats the whole purpose of the poll. A comment like that, to be honest, makes me feel that I want to leave regardless.
I for one agreed that a full blown cap was NOT an appropriate choice, but maybe some aspect of one was, or some type of change to roster amounts and style would help.
The league fee is $56. It is supposed to be fun. I would like a chance to win, but if I don't then so be it as long as its fun.

Maybe I took your statement a bit too harshly, but I really feel that was unnecessary.

[seadawg]

People need to understand that voting for option 2 (any sort of salary cap, no matter how implemented) will have the most significant impact on the league. You guys are all free to vote for that decision if you want, but it means basically forming a whole new league with a new commish and probably a new website. Plus, you will have to definitely find new members. I put that info directly in the poll so people don't have to filter through the entire chain of discussion that has occurred up to this point.

Basically, Adam isn't interested in running a salary cap league, and I'm not interested in being in a league with anyone else as the commish.

And besides, like I already said, the poll results ultimately mean nothing anyway at this point. All it does is show the possible direction the league may go.

[akkei]

I think it is important to keep our focus on finding ways to improve our respective experience in participating in this league.

The thing I like the most in Fantasy hockey is drafting, so that obviously ha influenced my suggestion for a redraft. I see that is not the kind of option that the bottom teams are looking for. The fact that Ben came out and suggested that he would prefer to continue to go on with his rebuilding plan was quite telling in my view. I also appreciate the suggestions made by Roenick27 as he brings quite a different perspective. In the end I think it is only normal that the first ideas thrown out in this conversation are not optimal. I think it is important to continue the conversation.

[roenick27]

Then it never should be listed as an option...
Again, maybe I took it a little too harshly, but to me its kind of a " If we don't get what we want, then we're taking our toys and going home" as opposed to doing what is best for the league. Now maybe you guys feel it is what's best for the league, and that's fine and understandable, but I see probably your 3 most active GM's (not counting Adam as he is Commish) saying something needs to be done to bring some type of balance, and IMO, fun back into the league. 9 trades in a year is dismal.
In addition looking back, you have 4 original teams and 6 takeovers (multiple takeovers too I believe ) in 4 years. To me, that tells me that some things need to change.
I personally don't agree with most of your above post, but there are some parts of that post that bother me.
1."Basically, Adam isn't interested in running a salary cap league, and I'm not interested in being in a league with anyone else as the commish" While not technically collusion, that is the first thought that pops into my head.
2. "People need to understand that voting for option 2 (any sort of salary cap, no matter how implemented) will have the most significant impact on the league" I'm glad that you have pre-determined that will lead to the most significant impact in the league.


Basically in short, I'm new here. I have no intention of creating an uprising, but this is not a league that I want to take part in anymore. I will send a PM to Adam as well that I am no longer in the league

I hope there are no hard feelings with anyone in here.

[seadawg]

roenick, I don't know you, but this is a discussion. You leaving without finishing this discussion is exactly what you are accusing me of doing: "If we don't get what we want, then we're taking our toys and going home."

I didn't want to include the salary cap as an option because I don't think it will work because Adam doesn't want it. And I am in 5 other keeper leagues and am not interested in being in this league if it isn't being run by someone who has built up my trust over the years. That is far from collusion. I'm simply being honest that I don't mind giving my money to Adam to hold, and I know he will not bail on the league like some other commish's have done in other leagues.

[roenick27]

See the issue is it was a discussion until you decided that if it wasn't what you wanted then you and Adam would leave your own league. Either way, whatever happened, I would've sucked it up for another year and spent my $56 and hoped it got better.
Saying you don't want to be in the league because Adam isn't the commish isn't cool. It just isn't. I didn't say you were in collusion in trades etc, but to me it sounds like you both got together and basically said if there are changes we don't want, then we will threaten to leave. To me, that's where the DISCUSSION ended, and IMO you chose to end it, not me.
I was the one who was at least throwing ideas around. My intentions were to help. Were you happy with a league that has a revolving door of GM's? Maybe a fraction of them are actually active? That's not what I want and the more the discussion went on, the further back I looked and saw all of the replacements, decrease in activity, the more the league was lopsided etc. Then with those comments, I decided it was time to move on as you clearly determined that you will determine how it will be run, not what may be best for the league.
I have no problem with you and Adam stepping up and saying, these are the rules, and that's what it will be. The issue I have with this is that you guys have a section on here for suggestions, even though you clearly don't want to see any.

It's a sad day. I think you guys are nice guys, but this isn't what I signed up for.

[seadawg]

First off, I haven't spoken to Adam about any of this.

Secondly, I do want changes in this league. I voted for Option 4 (which, btw, is completely different than what Adam wants, which is to leave everything as is for another year)

[playmaker26]

I haven't spoken to Cy (Seadawg) about this at all. I have plenty of experience running this type of format and that is why Cy is saying that, in my opinion.

I never said I wouldn't go along with change. But a salary cap is not the change this league needs. Thank you for the suggestion but it's not what is best for the league. If everyone thought it was, and we haven't heard from anyone, then I would just step down and leave the league.

I personally don't think the "prospect as .5 asset" is a good way to go. If we have a re-draft, I think it's important that each team has the same amount of assets at the start.

[playmaker26]

Well he's gone.

I don't think that should table the discussion on change. I have no problem with doing a re-draft. My suggestion is:

1. Keep 14 assets.
2. 14 round draft.
3. 10 round prospect draft (excluding 2014 draft picks)
4. 2014 prospect draft

The issue at hand for me is: Do we reset 2014 and 2015 draft picks giving everyone their original 6 picks? Or do we keep whatever picks we have from previous trades?

[seadawg]

Apr 10, 2014 14:40:33 GMT -5 playmaker26 said:

Well he's gone.

I don't think that should table the discussion on change. I have no problem with doing a re-draft. My suggestion is:

1. Keep 14 assets.
2. 14 round draft.
3. 10 round prospect draft (excluding 2014 draft picks)
4. 2014 prospect draft

The issue at hand for me is: Do we reset 2014 and 2015 draft picks giving everyone their original 6 picks? Or do we keep whatever picks we have from previous trades?

Sorry roenick left, Adam. That wasn't my intention.

I have no problem with these suggestions.

I think we should not reset the 2014 and 2015 picks, and I'm saying this as someone who traded away most of my 2014 picks already.

[seadawg]

To add to Adam's suggestions:

- no trading of picks in the 14 round roster draft nor in the 10 round prospect draft
- free to make trades as usual in the 2014 prospect draft
- for the 10 round prospect draft, you can only take skaters with fewer than 25 games and goalies with fewer than 20 games. And, like Adam already said, you cannot take any 2014 draftees until the 2014 prospect draft.

One question:

Are we able to draft players that qualify as prospects (under the games-played requirements) in the regular draft? Say someone like Drouin (though he will be protected, of course).

[playmaker26]

Here is my full suggestion with my reasons why and also a tricky thing which I'll leave to the end.

1. Keep 14 assets.
2. 14 round snake draft. Reverse order of standings for 1st round. Anyone can be drafted except 2014 prospects. That means prospects (like Drouin for example) can be taken.
3. 10 round prospect draft. Reverse order of standings for 1st round. Excluding 2014 prospects.
4. Reset 2014 and 2015 draft picks. This ensures that everyone starts with the same amount of assets.
5. NO TRADING IN THE RE-DRAFT.
6. 2014 Prospect Draft. Draft order determined by the lottery like it is every offseason for our league. Trading is now allowed.

The tricky thing is do we allow trading of current assets? For example, I wouldn't keep Michael Raffl (nobody would but just using a player as an example). Do we allow teams to move players for other players or 2014/2015 draft picks? This would allow teams to strengthen their 14 keepers.

[seadawg]

Apr 10, 2014 15:28:22 GMT -5 playmaker26 said:

The tricky thing is do we allow trading of current assets? For example, I wouldn't keep Michael Raffl (nobody would but just using a player as an example). Do we allow teams to move players for other players or 2014/2015 draft picks? This would allow teams to strengthen their 14 keepers.

I have no problem with this, and assume it would be in the best interest of everyone in the league, including the teams near the bottom of the standings.

For example, in keeping only 14 assets, I will likely be releasing players like Evander Kane (I have to check on that to make sure, but I think he is on the cusp for me). I suspect teams near the bottom might be interested in someone like Kane. To help both teams, I'd certainly be interested in trading Kane and another player (e.g., Eberle) to upgrade my core keepers. That helps me, but also gives a team near the bottom of the standings some added depth.

Normally I would not trade Kane and Eberle for a marginal upgrade on Eberle, but I'd be willing to do that if I am about to lose Kane for nothing.

[raylinke]

I started a reply yesterdayday but never had time to finish my thoughts and I have since deleted it as I wanted to look into the league as much as possible and see what I could find out.

It looks like we have 6 members that have been around for a while, with 5 out of 6 being in the top 6 and with me being here for less then a year being the only newer manager to place at 4th. The only reason one of the original teams was lower was he has admitted to go for a full rebuild.

trying to get people to take over teams that have about half the points of the top teams is going to be tough and when a new manager sees that there has only been one champion in the four years of the league. Something is wrong and that is evident in the fact that there has been as much turnover as there has been. And of course the majority of teams needing managers are on the bottom of the standings with little chance to rebuild their team.

seeing the suggestions put forth I would be dropping the league as well if it went forth as proposed above.

the resetting of draft picks???
NO WAY IN HELL...
teams traded their picks and draft picks to get top tier talent from other teams and in doing so gained an advantage over the other team by giving them future assets But now you want those future assets back...... Let's burn the rebuilding franchises to the ground and expect someone to take them over.
FOR EXAMPLE ONLY - Give me Crosby for my first second and third in the next 2 drafts, and these 5 good to great prospects..... now I keep Crosby get my picks back and you can keep only one of those 5 prospects that I traded to you. HAVE FUN IN THE BASEMENT!!!!!!!!! what do you mean you are dropping your team??


Stepping back and looking at the all the teams in the league without care for who is who.
- the lower teams they have tons of prospects but very little top end talent or roster depth.
- the middle teams have a superstar or two and some stars but lack roster depth usually but most have some good prospects coming up
- top teams have a bunch of superstars and stars and solid roster depth with all their stars but very little prospect depth

If you want to even the playing field without inflicting major pain to the top teams or the rebuilding teams then the solution is

LIMITED KEEPER with full prospect keepers till 100-150 games and 50-75 games for goalies or 4 years after their draft (5 for goalies)
With it being something new I would suggest a sliding approach to give everyone the time to change.

I would say go to a limited keeper starting at 20 this year 16 next year, 12 the following year and maybe to 10 going forward (debateable). Rebuilding teams keep their prospects, and top teams keep the majority of their top end talent. Next year they keep less of it but could trade some depth for higher high end players and start to build up their draft lists.
With straight drafts starting from lowest placed teams through to replace the players. You will need to redraft well in both the prospect and roster drafts and of course the waiver wire to stay at the top even with 12 top players on your team you still need depth to win so every draft will be critical.

This year no trading roster draft picks all rosters cut to 20 and then an 8 round draft to fill the reserves. so no losses on the roster only the spares are lost.
Going forward all trades for roster draft positions must be done during the season so no fire-sales in the offseason. So teams wanting to gain draft position in the next year or two will need to trade some players prior to trade deadline or risk losing them for nothing in the offseason which makes the Deadline a BUSY TIME and forces trades to happen at that time.